What’s Your Plan? Putting the Culture of Preparedness to Work

This week we are talking to James DeMeo the author of What’s You Plan. We discuss the culture of preparedness and how we can encourage people to be vigilant about their soundings.  In today’s world, you can be involved in an act of violence in any place, and anytime.

James DeMeo:  If you’re on, you know, Twitter where we’re monitoring responsibility, what’s going on. So we are going to an event, we are aware of the political climate that we’re walking into.

Todd DeVoe:     Hi Welcome to EM Weekly Your Emergency Management Podcast. This is your host Todd DeVoe speaking. This week we’re talking to James DeMeo, and he is the author of What’s Your Plan and basically James as a security specialist in emergency management goes into the idea of building your threat assessment and how you would work out that issue when you are out in town at the mall, at your church, at City gatherings, things like this. You know, realistically in today’s world they are kind of high target value, right? Aurora Colorado for instance, at the movie theater or in New York City when the guy drove the truck through one of the festivals, things like that. The idea is taking a look at the threat assessment, and then it’s teaching people to have a plan, and it’s really taking a look at putting the culture of preparedness to work. You know, when I go to the movies, we take a look at the exits, and we make a plan and saying this is our primary exit, secondary exit, tertiary exit.

Todd DeVoe:     And if we get split up, we say, where are we going to meet? And it’s not that we want something to happen or that we think something’s going to happen. We just want to be ready. You know, and I teach this to people as well. When we’re doing our community training for preparedness, it’s not just being prepared for the earthquake or the hurricane or the tornado. We want to teach that cultural preparedness, how he’s ready. Realistically at the end of the day, it gives people better command and control of what’s going on. Who knows, you know, we don’t want it to happen, but what if they are at the next Boston bombing type thing. Anyway, I think that James’ book is coming out in a timely manner and I’m excited to have you guys listened to him talk about his book and how he came to it.

Todd DeVoe:     Are you guys going to go to the EMLC, the emergency management leaders conference this may the 29th, and 30th in Phoenix, Arizona We’re going to be there with the Titan HST mobile studio. I am excited to have you guys come by and stop and talk to some of the presenters. And during our interview, you too can ask questions of the guests. So look and see you guys there. May 29th and 30th in Phoenix, Arizona.

Todd DeVoe:     Now onto the interview. Well, I’m super excited to have James De Mayo here with me today, and he’s a fellow, an emergency manager, and an instructor as well. And he has his book, and we’re going to talk about that. James, welcome to EM Weekly.

James DeMeo:  Absolute honor to be here today with you. Thank you for the conversation.

Todd DeVoe:     So James, how did you get into emergency management?

James DeMeo:  Well, I’m 28 years in the security industry, 21 of which I was with Nassau County Police Department, on Long Island, New York, and certainly starting out in patrol and community affairs and teaching in the police academy. That’s really where my love for teaching started. Eventually was designated a detective work in juvenile and then went over to missing persons. And after 21 years I decided to venture into a second career, but I can’t to kind of continue my passion for public service and are the masters at Adelphi University on Long Island, then got into event security, which I was specializing and still continue to specialize in since 2011 and 12 and over the last year and a half, two years, I’ve been focusing primarily on family safety and preparedness, which again brings us to a conversation today about the book.

Todd DeVoe:     Well, it’s great Nassau County for those of you who don’t know, it’s on Long Island. It is the the First County, oh, well I guess the second county if you count Queens. Right, exactly. So I grew up a little bit on Long Island over in Riverhead long Island, which is Suffolk County, which is way at the end. So, you know, we kind of choose some of the some of the same dirt there. So go into the process of writing the book. So obviously you felt there was a pain point there for, for people, what’s the title of it and how did you get a decided to write it?

James DeMeo:  Well, great, again, thank you for the opportunity to share What’s Your Plan is. A step by step guide to keeping your family safe during emergency situations. And I really never thought I would write a book quite honestly. But you know, going back to 2017 we were in a mall in Durham, North Carolina, up on the second floor. I was with my family. And then all of a sudden the lights went out in the mall, and you looked around, and everybody was, you know, kind of looking down at their smart phones and in complete darkness, you know, completely desensitized to the world around them. And my son Aiden, who was 14 at the time was 13, had said something in May, um, you know, which was rather profound little hairs in the back of my neck stood up. And so that moment forth we decided to, you know, certainly on the ride home from the mall, we decided to have our own family conversation on what we would do if we were faced with some type of an active shooter bomb scare, some kind of a true emergency situation, geared for our family.

James DeMeo:  How would we react, what plans would we take, you know, what steps we take to kind of ensure our safety and preparedness. And that really was the impetus for me to sit down with my family. Again, it came from my own son. I’ve been in this industry for over 28 years. But when it comes from your own family member, you really, you really feel that you feel compelled to do something about it. And that really was my motivation. It’s about a, for my team. I hired a full collaborator, my publishers at Plano, Texas. Uh, we able to get the the book jacket design from a Gentleman Mike in New Jersey. So we have a very, very strong team. I hired a publicist, within the last six months based in Charlotte. So collectively, collectively we’ve been able to kind of get the word out to prepare families, you know, unknowing what to do. And people I’ve already approached me and asked me about the possibility of writing another book and I’m definitely interested in doing that because unfortunately as we both know, there’s so much more to report in the world that’s happened. You know, since I wrote this book last November,

Todd DeVoe:     one of the things that FEMA is looking at and it is one of their tenants, is the idea of the culture of preparedness and then kind of top on top of that, it was the resilient community. How does your book play into both of those tenants for emergency management?

James DeMeo:  Well, again, I think FEMA does a great job with educating all of us thought leaders, in terms of being prepared. But you know, I feel that you know, my book is, is not the answer. I’m smart enough to understand that it’s not the answer, it’s not the complete solution, but it’s part of it, part of a solution in an ever evolving, a threatened environment. So when we talk about, you know, FBI stats last year, for instance, the first 10 that 15 minutes in an active shooter situation, you know, most of the best stuff is over before the good guys get there. So if we fast forward the clock to kind of what’s going on today we’re saying that the active shooters are more intense. they seem to be more frequent. They’re happening at a much more rapid rate. The time-frame has kind of decreased.

James DeMeo:  So I’ve got to back this up, with a little research, but if I was taking an educated guess, maybe seven and nine minutes right now with the bad stuff is over before the good guys get there. So my book kind of fits into, the scenario in that if we can get families to, you know, create their own safety plan, whether they’re at the mall, whether it, the place of worship, you know, certain, certainly it’s a sporting event, but to kind of create a situational awareness mindset on what they’re going to do before the good guys get there. Certainly run, hide, fight, see something, say something. Very, very important things that we need the public to buy into. But I think what’s happening now is if the public or kind of tuned out to our message, then they don’t really operate from a position of strength.

James DeMeo:  It’s more reactive as opposed to being more proactive in nature. So again, I feel that what’s your plan kind of fits into the scenario of getting out in front of the challenge is educating and empowering our citizens on knowing what to do in times of crisis — getting over the fear factor. Cause you and I know that when the fear factor rears its ugly head, it’s more reactionary. People don’t have a plan; they don’t have an awareness. it becomes very chaotic. Law enforcement is responding to the scene, and ultimately people are at somewhat of a disadvantage in terms of, you know, getting out in front of these challenges.

Todd DeVoe:     No, you’re so right. When I went and talked to people regarding just active shooter in general, just in just making decisions, we, we go into the concept of, Boyd’s OODA loop, you know, and the difference between the trained professional and the regular person I suppose is that it’s how fast can they get through that time when they freeze to the time when they act. I think to go into a situation where you have a plan that puts you into the ability too, recognizes and reacts quicker. You know, when my son and I go to the movies and, and we, uh, take a look and we say, okay, here’s the action plan. If there’s a fire or anything, there’s these, the first exits there, that’s where we are going. If we get split up, you know, where the car at and that’s where we’re going to meet. So we have that plan, and we’ve verbalized that every single time. And you know, we know nothing’s going to happen or hope this is going to happen. But at least in the head and in my mind where we’re ahead of the game because we verbalize that plan. Do you recommend that as well or is that something that I’m just doing a little crazy.

James DeMeo:  Yeah, no, no, I mean you’re right on point. Obviously, as a security leader, emergency manager, and a father, I always talk about that. I send my two kids, my readers, so natural that out too. So you know, obviously when we’re in the business, so to speak, our kids a little bit more in tune right to the world around them. But certainly, families that don’t have are, you know, an ex-military retired law enforcement kind of background. Again, I think it’s very, very important. I think there were a CVS and a patriot and so no matter where you are, you can be, you know, waiting on the line to pick up your prescription at the pharmacy and suddenly, an active shooter or workplace violence scenario, you know, can unfold literally right in front of your eyes. So to me, it’s any place, anywhere, anytime. It’s not to create the able to empower.

James DeMeo:  As you’ve mentioned, you’ve already looked at the exit signs, you know how to get in, and I’ll get to how to get out. And we’ve seen too that the threat containment evolves obviously, right? Someone can pull the fire alarm, all of a sudden there’s an active shooter, there’s some kind of a fire that could be two or three successes. you know, kind of situations that are unfolding. But you’ve already created you know, your exit strategy before you entered that space. you know, again, with your family, which I think is really, really important. Again, you know, we look at Las Vegas people talk about motive. I have friends that are ex FBI agent, smartest people you could imagine. But you and I know when people talk about motive, it’s important to understand what that usually means. People are no longer with us. So, again, we want to understand that for court purposes you know, during the prosecution stage and all that.

James DeMeo:  But ultimately when we talk about motive, it’s reactionary after the fact. And usually, people are no longer here. They’re victims, unfortunately. So we want to kind of change that mindset to get out in front, to increase our chances of surviving. And again, I don’t want to mislead anyone. Nothing’s 100% guaranteed, but you know, we’re saying now, since last November, uh, you know, I’m sure you had the same kind of person. We feel like we’re on the mountain top pounding our chest. Is anyone listening to us? I think people are starting to understand the importance of, you know, preparing themselves. And that’s what law enforcement needs. They need the public to bring their A game out while they’re in public. Because, you know, we’re saying studies around the country, you know, applications for law enforcement are down 60%. the officers are under a lot of stress.

James DeMeo:  Many of them wants to retire. A, we’re not getting people to go into public service or, you know, obviously the FBI. Um, so we’re concerned about that and we look at, you know, just everything from schools to densely populated areas to open spaces, softer targets, malls, churches, you know, Pittsburgh, Las Vegas, you know, just look around the world in Europe where they’re using vehicles as weapons. We get into, you know, controversial topics like the second amendment and gun control and there’s a multitude of issues, political instability, and Paris, we certainly seeing challenges here in the United States were protesting. I live here in Raleigh, over at the University of North Carolina and silent Sam. There are different groups and teeth that we have all these different variables and hear you out. You’re out in public with your family; you’re trying to take in a movie. There are things that unfold right around you.

James DeMeo:  and again, that’s why I wrote this book. I plan on writing a second book, which is a follow-up, you know, dealing with some issues like hurricanes and natural disasters, political unrest you know, different things with the bitcoin. You know, fishing a scam that we saw last week where there was, you know, mass notifications for bomb scares. And again, that places a tremendous strain on law enforcement, utilizing resources. And we also, you know, as emergency managers, we wonder is this part of a terrorist plot for reconnaissance to see how law enforcement response to these types of scenarios. So again, here we are going into the height of the holiday season. We have to be mindful of, you know, obviously being out in public places, obviously terrorist organization throughout the world. They’ve already told us, you know, that we need to be on guard. So especially in along with our families, we need to get out in front. We need to empower, and we need to share information, you know, lessons learned best practices, help one another, see something, say something, but get the public to buy into the mantra. We are getting out in front during times of crisis.

Todd DeVoe:     So how do we balance the idea of preparing people and not scaring people?

James DeMeo:  Well, it is a balance, and you know, and the whole education thing, the president, feels that the teachers should be armed. I don’t necessarily agree with him respectfully. The teachers that I’ve spoken to feel that that’s not what they signed up for. We should have highly trained ex-military law enforcement working in those spaces. When you talk to the teachers about hardening targets in school, they want to create that balance between educating the children and not creating a police state. So, it’s a follow-up to your question. How do we find that balance? Right? And sports and entertainment, it’s all about the fan experience. But when you go to professional sports, especially mega events like the Superbowl it can potentially look like a war zone, right? We have the best equipment you can imagine. but when we look at the mid-sized venues that don’t have the resources, that the professional sports entities have, I’m concerned, they potentially softer targets.

James DeMeo:  We need to find that balance between, you know, making the area safe. and again, not being overzealous and creating some type of a police environment or me to target that much. And, and again, we got to look at the schools. We got to look at whether or not the children are being traumatized by the false alarms, that were seeing. East Carolina University just last week did an active shooter drill. It cost him $40,000. A tremendous, tremendous amount of work, nine hour day for everybody there, but certainly a very, very important step and getting out in front, you know, within higher education vertical in terms of safe guarding that space,

Todd DeVoe:     You talked about arena security and a large event like the super bowl or whatever. I had the opportunity to help out with the Stanley Cup a few years ago that was in Orange County, and it was amazing the resources that everybody put into issue. And you’re right, I mean, as a small venue, say like a small college, a tier one or tier two college, something like that, that doesn’t have the resources to put into it, you know, that’s one of the stresses that they have. You know, at the college where I work at that we’re getting the stadium, and it’s like going through that process of how do you balance the idea of security and, and not making the police state. As you said, we talk about this; we said we could become the safest campus in the world, but it’s going to look like it’s men’s central jail. You know that balance is really important to the freedom of movement.

Todd DeVoe:     And then the, uh, put also security at the same time. It is, it’s, it’s kind of hard for us in the profession. You know, we want to do our greatest job that we can do, but we also want to provide a fun experience for people and or in schools, a place where people feel comfortable learning. And I think this is one of the challenges that we have. So moving forward from that, you know, we, we have these issues with the protests in the streets and, because you know, they’re happening, sometimes you don’t, and I noticed the tactics of ANTIFA specifically and that they are, they’re getting more aggressiv, and they’re actually almost like the the lions on the Serengeti. They’re looking for the weak or target, and they’re trying to split people up in or they’re actually chasing people into parking structures in Portland. and, and holding them there. What’s the next move for, for us, for an event like a, an ANTIFA protest?

James DeMeo:  You know, again, I must do some more regarding Antifa. It’s certainly, you know, what you just shared is, is accurate and I’ll point and again, it comes back to the public buying into, you know, creating, uh, the wrong hyper vigilance, right? You know, a situational awareness, you know, utilizing technology. And I think that’s the key is utilizing the integration of technology along with responsible social media monitoring. So again, if we’re law enforcement agency for the regular citizen, if you are on, you know, Twitter where we’re monitoring responsibly what’s going on so that we are going to an event, we are aware of the political climate that we’re walking into. A man for an example, let’s say you’re in a symphony or northern California and you know, you know, you’re in Alameda or you know, the San Francisco area and you know that there’s some political unrest or some group, you know, you need to really kind of educate yourself on what’s going on around you, as it, as the head of your family.

James DeMeo:  And so before you go out to that event because certainly law enforcement we hope is doing that obviously and sharing resources. But you know, moving forward, we have a lot of these groups here, you know, anti-government groups or you know, you have people protesting, and they don’t even know why they’re protesting. You know, we had black lives matter, we had occupied Wall Street a few years ago. we have the radical radicalization of citizens via the Internet, which is very, very concerning. So again, you know, we have to, you know, share that information and not presume, you know, when something doesn’t look like right, obviously that it’s somebody else’s responsibility. We need to share that inflammation. You get a movie theater and somebody that was looking like they’re having a bad day, don’t presume it’s somebody else’s responsibility, but somebody in a position that already knows someone next to you is having a bad day.

James DeMeo:  We have to be mindful of, you know, people that are agitated and mental health is a very, it’s a big concern in our country right now. So, we talk about verbal de-escalation, right? In emergency management and treating people with dignity and respect, but also just not engaging a road rage. All these things that go on. We want to operate from a position of strength by being obviously, you know, confident while in public places, filing, squaring your shoulders. Looking up from our smartphones, there’s been other studies show something crazy like six to 11 hours a day. Most people are looking at their smart phones, so they really desensitized the world around them. so we want to just kind of get out in front, educate ourselves, and just get the public to buy into the mantra of, you know, the wrong situational awareness.

Todd DeVoe:     You know, going back to the situational awareness part of it, , just thinking a couple of years ago, maybe even last year, they had those kids that were doing that whole a knockout game where they’re looking for people that were not paying attention and just, come up knocking him out, you know? And it’s just simply that. And for them, the fears, the kids, it was just, it was a game for other people. They got really hurt. And, uh, I think when somebody died,

James DeMeo:  yeah, I mean these things, you know, out there on the Internet and, you know, social media is a big part of our lives. I mean, so what, it’s Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, snap-chat. We have millennial’s. We have baby boomers, and we have a lot of people accessing this information. Young people in schools. you know, it, it takes up a big part of our day. But I think if we utilize the technology, not only proactively but responsibly, you know, again, severe weather conditions, paying attention to the weather, you know, understanding that there are a lot of good apps out there. Emergency Management Apps, we’re here based in Raleigh. We just went through Hurricane Florence, not too long ago. I think the governor did a very good job of getting us resources, but quite honestly, I didn’t really know what to expect in this area. I’ve been through; sandy had been through Irene.

James DeMeo:  I worked the aftermath of 9/11 down here in Raleigh. I did not know what to expect, with Florence. So I think it’s important to get everybody in your neighborhood. On the same page, you know, get your resources, you know, get you food and water and obviously canned goods. This is all part of being educated and knowing what to do. And again, I think moving forward, you know, we’re going to see challenges will continue. Emergency managers will be busier than ever. I’m more money now is going in to the security industry than ever before. but I think it’s very, very important because you don’t want to be known as that organization at skip corners on security. Again, whether that’s in a corporate environment, whether that’s in a sports and entertainment environment, like the Brian stow case in 2011, with the Dodgers, were cited, uh, inadequate security and they were sued for $21 million.

James DeMeo:  You don’t want to be known as that organization, on the pro level, obviously the high school level or university level because ultimately it will end up and the loss of life litigation, we’re going to see what’s going to happen post Las Vegas in terms of duty of care and the safety act. And Yeah, obviously that situation was a third party contract security. and whether or not you’re shielded from that liability. So, security leaders, we need to do our homework. We need to do our due diligence, we need to educate and keep our patrons safe and we need to go back to, um, you know, the, the, the people that stand in the organization and try to get to the head of the table during operational discussions and enlightened these folks about the importance of investing, financial resources, insecurity, a technology and educating and training the workforce for us to be safe during, you know, the, they’re a course of business.

Todd DeVoe:     Well, one of the things as an emergency manager that we really need to stress to our residents into the, to the people that are coming to our cities is the idea of resiliency and preparedness. And I think like your book is one of those tools that you could use, in that discussion going forward, how do you think an emergency manager, how do we, how do we encourage that? The culture of preparedness and the resilience city concept,

James DeMeo:  two valid points and culture is very, very important regardless of the vertical that you entrusted to protect. So I think it starts with, it’s a bottom up, top down approach. Certainly if you’re in a corporate environment, many of the security officers that work in corporate environments, a retired law enforcement, ex-military, so I say if you’re the, you know, the CEO of a corporate environment, you really should get the stakeholders to sit at the same table, your technology people, your physical security people, and obviously some of the payment leaders, with same, you know, that space to form a safety plan to share information. If it’s a potential workplace violence scenario if you have an employee who has just been a terminated or about to be terminated, that information needs to be shared in a timely matter between human resources, the head of obviously, personnel and your security officers that are working within that space.

James DeMeo:  So, unfortunately, people do lose their jobs. We don’t know how they’re going to react to it. because we don’t know what caught obviously what’s going on. So I think as emergency managers, it comes down from the stakeholders. I presented, you know, around the country about the book and security. I chat on panels, you know, obviously post Parkland. and I think it’s important to get, first of all, we want to look at security from a holistic standpoint, from multiple angles. And I have taught tunnel vision and want to get the stakeholders to shut down at the table, share information and best financial resources and safeguarding and adhering to the duty care responsibilities that we have for keeping people safe. Obviousl, within the workplace itself, you know, I’ll work in Chinese,this collaboration, this conversation is very important. , I value our connection. I looked to obviously, you know, be out there, be out in front with yourself, obviously emergency managers, and just continue our education, share information and do you know the best that we can on a daily basis, during these most difficult trying times.

Todd DeVoe:     So if somebody was trying to get a hold of you, how would they find you?

James DeMeo:  Thank you so much. I am James a DeMeo. I’m the proud author of the bestselling, What’s Your Plan? we are on Amazon. We are book reads. My website is Jamesademeo.com again, here in the Raleigh area, walking assignment with Quail Ridge. I’m originally from the north shore of Long Island. We’re at the Dolphin Bookstore on consignment, which is important, Washington. So my goal again is to do a podcast. Do you work with emergency managers? I’ve been on television, you know, I hope to get on national television, but I am just one of many voices, and I’m smart enough to realize that this message is bigger than James Eighth. And now this is all of us working together. and collectively do you get the information out? Because unfortunately there’s a lot of fear out there and we know that the security leaders, we can’t sell fear, but what we can do is encourage and lighten and get folks to, you know, pay attention to the world around them. And to do their part and ensuring their own personal safety and preparedness. So again, it’s what your plan, I’m in the process of putting together a manuscript for my next book, but ultimately I can’t do this without you guys and certainly the opportunity to talk with you this morning. I’m honored to have the conversation, and again, I thank you for your support.

Todd DeVoe:     Do you recommend to somebody who’s in emergency management topic?

James DeMeo:  That’s a tough question because there’s so much out there, there’s so much out there, and it’s all good information. But obviously the resources you start with a FEMA sign up for the courses as emergency manager. you know, certainly, you know, anything to do with, you know, again, it depends on what vertical you’re interested in. Again, I have specialized in event security, so you know, there are international members as is Asi es, which I think is very, very important. They have the CPP, which is a goal of mine as well, as far as their certification. But I think, you know, if you just get out of the Internet, there’s a lot of open source information. Just be careful on how you vet it. Make sure that it’s reliable. , connect with, obviously your fusion centers, which I think is really important.

James DeMeo:  But ultimately, you know, we’re all in this together. There’s a lot of good information on LinkedIn and Twitter and Facebook for that matter. but as, as emergency manager, I think FEMA has some great courses. and again, continuing education is very important, but the challenge has continued. And we’re saying now that obviously, you know, cyber is a concern. Certainly, physical security continues to be a concern. We’re looking at drones. I think there were just several drones, right? I think over in England, nearly shut down the airport. So we have to be concerned about Erin drones., so we have a lot of work to do. the world is very conflicted. things are moving rather quickly, but that the rat continuum evolves. It’s ever evolving. And ultimately for us to get out and saw it, we need to have an education. I teach for Tulane; I’m a distance learning, adjunct instructor. So for me, I take great pride in teaching the future leaders, and event security and risk management. So that’s kind of my role is continuing education and training. But ultimately these collaborations, uh, you know, again, getting emergency managers to share information, best practices, lessons learned, doing everything we can to make the world safe as possible.

Todd DeVoe:     that Drone Attack thing was crazy. Every time they tried to get one, another one came down, and I wonder if that’s probing or what was going on that, but that was, that was kind of an interesting and it did shut down the airport,

James DeMeo:  yeah, for a few hours. And so you think about, you know, certainly the amount of resources that went into it. I mean, 21 years for me, everything was a real thing until proven. Otherwise, every bomb split, everything, every, everything is going to be considered a credible threat. And it’s a one time that we let our guards down that is, in fact, a wheel thing. And now all of a sudden we’re trying to catch up game and nobody wants to play the catch up game in the world to security. You don’t want to start back backpedaling because then you’re not operating from a position of strength. So we need to get out, sorry, we need to share information. And again, technology is a big part of it. We’re saying, you know, biometrics and Iris Scans and fast lanes, uh, you know, with TSA, we’re starting to see that now in sports and entertainment.

James DeMeo:  as far as fast-pass lanes, which I think are important because we know a security leader, right? Choke points in bottlenecks, those densely populated areas. We want, we want to move folks in and out of the spaces. Um, but we look at softer targets. you know, the holiday shopping season malls, extremely vulnerable. , so we want to, cause we don’t scream right, but we’re saying with the churches and synagogues now that they’re starting to harden those targets, targets obviously post Pittsburgh, but certainly getting everyone together, sharing information, getting out for places and places us in the best position possible. Moving forward

Todd DeVoe:     What would like to say directly to the emergency manager today?

James DeMeo:  I commend you for all of your efforts and try not to get frustrated because we’re all in this together. I know that you knock on the door, he asked for resources. You do the best she can with the resources you have. But you know, at the end of the day you want to be able to go home and know that you did everything possible to adhere to duty, care, responsibilities, protecting the verticals that you don’t trust it to protect. So keep doing what you do. I appreciate it. , we, we all appreciate each other’s leadership, and again, we’re all leaders. Uh, we care about keeping our families safe. , you know, obviously, people that work within our spaces safe and just keep doing the best you can. Try Not to get frustrated, do a lot of self-learning because I think that makes you extremely valuable for your organization so that you can go back and share case studies and examples.

James DeMeo:  you know, with people that spend money, in your verticals and to enlighten them. Cause a lot of them are just money people, right? We’re CFOs, there’s, you know, csls it technology people. and that’s what they’re strong at. But we’re strong atmosphere people, security training, being collaborative. And then just sharing those case examples with them so that you can, you know, obviously you know, back up what you’re saying with research and data in terms of statistics. So again, you know, know your FBI stats, you know, be able to educate them and show them what the cause they’re always looking for the return on investment. They want to know exactly to spending 40,000 on an active shooter. They want to know exactly what they’re getting for their money. So talk to them about, you know, resiliency and continuity and brand protection, especially in higher education. You don’t want endowments, and obviously, you know, not being a tarnished university because you didn’t plan properly or there was an active shooter, they weren’t prepared. We’ve got us to the vertical, you know, educate them, make sure your facts are correct and she has information with them and autonomy ladder to get out and some of the challenges.

Todd DeVoe:     Well James, thank you so much for being on the show this morning. When you get the other book written, contact me, we’ll have you back on.

James DeMeo:  Thank you for doing everything that you do on Facebook. So change DNA. I would love to connect with you. Obviously, you know, we met one of the Facebook group, and I think there’s a lot of good information out there. And I think ultimately, you know, our hearts in the right place, we’re trying to do the right thing. We just get, we need to get the public to listen to us. And that’s what, that’s where our source of frustration comes in because they don’t think it’s going to happen to them or you know, a 91 you know, Jason albums on the stage and they think it’s, you know, something with speaker system. And in fact, it’s really, you know, an active shooter situation. So we need to get these folks not to BP sensitized, but to realize that, hey, in fact, maybe something is happening, but we’ve already trained, we’ve already been prepared. We’re out in front. We know what we’re going to do and we’re going to get ahead of that challenge.


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