Disaster EMS and Emergency Management

Todd DeVoe:      So I have Timothy Williamson with me right now and uh, I’m excited about this. We’re talking about EMS and emergency management. So Timothy, welcome to EM Weekly.

Tim Williamson:                Oh, thanks. Pleasure to be here. I’m really excited to be on show a big fan.

Todd DeVoe:      Thanks. So tell me a little bit about how you got involved with EMS specifically and then a little bit about your involvement with emergency services and emergency management.

Tim Williamson:                So, you know, it’s Kinda hard to say when I initially got excited about emergency or um, EMS rather. I initially just wanted to go into fire science in high school when the fire science quickly learned through my adviser at the time that you to be a firefighter or at least get hired on, you. Definitely, need the least have your EMT. Didn’t even really know what an EMT was at that time. So during my fire science I met with a great guy named Mike Dan, director of vms over there at Illinois Central College. Went there instantly, fell in love my first class, EMT went straight through my paramedic, also continue with my fire science, got my associate degree in EMS and associate degree in fire science and from there I was lucky enough to work in emergency department, kind of, you know, get a feel on how that actually works with after that was a lucky to get hired on at the Morton Fire Department and Morton Illinois.

Been there for full time about going on nine years next March. So pretty exciting stuff. Time flies during that time, man. It’s been nothing but an uphill lucky career. So after I started doing the Morton Fire Department, I actually continued my education when I was able to take the critical care paramedic through Creighton university online. Great Program for anybody has the opportunity for that and then just kind of got started in the teachings is simply by teaching Cpr classes and ACLS classes, which we call alphabet classes. I can break that down for you if you’d like. Later. Was Lucky enough to actually start working at my Alma Mater, Illinois Central College Teaching Cpr classes and what have you. And then I started working for a company called medicce.com, which does ems continuing education. They’re great as well. And then few years after that I was actually able to become an ems education officer at the Morton Fire Department where I do continuing education.

I also help, renew their licenses, things like that. About two and a half years ago I started, I kind of decided that I needed to kind of pursue or extend my education. So I actually attended Purdue university global, used to be capital and now it’s a great, great program, a degree, a bachelor’s degree in fire and emergency management. And that’s kind of where I really started getting into emergency management. Their program does a great job of actually just one kind of introducing you to it, really understanding what emergency management does because quite honestly, that’s something that will kind of want to dive into with you a little a little bit is the fact that before even learning about going into Purdue, uh, I learned a little bit of emergency management through NIMS that through my fire department, through the fire side of stuff.

But you know, I think that’s one thing that’s lacking and again, I don’t want to get hung up on it right now too much and then from there I’ve just been doing all that and just started my masters in public administration. I know you’re a, you have your master’s degree in that so we can definitely talk about that. I’m excited about it going through the University of Illinois, Springfield online. So that’s a little bit about me. In addition, I’m also our union secretary-treasurer as well as I volunteer for the Illinois Emergency Services Management Association and I’m actually just lucky not to just get published in a magazine called JEMS, which a journal for emergency medical services for an article I wrote called preplanned ems role in emergency management. So that’s awesome. Yeah, yeah, that’s super sad about that. So really just trying to, you know, be best professional I can. And in addition to February, I was lucky enough to go down to Emmitsburg, Maryland for the FEMA Basic Academy.

The front two weeks went back from that and I’m hoping to finish it out next February.

Todd DeVoe:      So EMI. That’s awesome.

Tim Williamson:                Yeah, that’d be great. It’s so beautiful there, man. As you know.

Todd DeVoe:      Let’s, let’s talk a little bit about the article that you wrote for JEMS that’s kind of. Yeah, yeah, for sure. That’s the premise of the article.

Tim Williamson:                Basically, you know, as I went through my Undergrad I just kinda realized that you know, I’m very blessed with my department. We do a great job of training and going over emergency management, but I think as a whole…in EMS, you know, we don’t have…, in my opinion…., it’s real lack in preparedness for this (disaster response) . So, you know, when we, when I go into work, and if a call drops, we go [respond]. If it’s a multiple, casually incident, we go and we come back and really there’s no, for most departments or in a good private ambulances, you really don’t have any particular plans as far as what happens, do we, we don’t have a plan for how to respond to these kinds of situations like disaster plans [for our family at home], you know, our, the simple fact of, you know, if there is a disaster and I’m going to it, you know the whole time I’m gonna be worried about my family.

Most EMS providers do not have a plan for their own families. So sometimes you actually…, just take the New Orleans for example, during that hurricane, a lot of police officers and EMS workers actually abandoned their posts just simply because they wanted to go take care of their families, which sounds terrible. But if you really sit down and think about it, it’s not… That they’re human beings. So that’s kind of what really got me into writing that. But it basically just talks about, why we need to plan and know why planning is important, knowing your community that you serve. So like where I work, central Illinois, you know, I would say our biggest problem we would phase is flooding and tornadoes, which I think a lot of midwestern America would worries about as well. And, and that’s basically the gist of it and I can definitely go into more of it if you’d like.

Todd DeVoe:      Sure. Yeah. I’d love to hear about the but what your, what your thought processes.

Tim Williamson:                It’s a pretty brief article if for the most part just kind of mostly just to kind of get people’s attention to just kind of think about, you know, your resources. For example, like if here where I work on a lot of other places, we have, you know, I worked for an ambulance, firebase ambulance. So we have two ambulances, were a pretty small town, a great city, but you know, to aim this is not a lot. So if there’s more than four patients as assuming that they’re not too banged up where our resources are tapped or if there’s another call that jobs where we’re on these calls and I know you have some ems experience as well. So, you know, we need to really be planning on what else, who else can we call, what are our other agencies that can respond to us, assuming that they’re not tied up in their own calls. What happens if they’re tied up? What happens if there is multiple patients, how are we going to transport them? What happens if there’s a bridge down? Because we had to cross a bridge to get to the local hospitals here. So all things that just kind of think about. Um, yeah.

Todd DeVoe:      So one of the things we’ve been talking about here a little bit is the after action report from the Vegas Shooting and reading it. There were some serious critiques event which I’m glad that they were there. And we’re learning from those, right? We don’t, we’re not. And just so everybody knows, we’re not using this after action report to, to ever dog on anybody. It’s how we can learn to be better and one of the things that that seemed to fail there was the incident command system and the EMTs and the ambulances were kind of doing their own thing and they really didn’t get into a system. What do you think that we could do better as emergency managers working with EMS and fire I suppose, but you know, it depends on where you’re at, who runs what, but with, with definitely with EMS and fire on how to better prepare for that mass casualty event, whether it’s active shooter or a, you know, the large bus accident, you know, what, what, what do we do that we could do, what can we do better as far as training?

Tim Williamson:                Yeah, that’s a, that’s a great question, but let me back up a little bit before that. You know, so you, you made a great point. And the big thing, I think the biggest hurdle we face is from EMS to fire to emergency managers as not. A lot of people know what the other roles are. So meaning like if, if an emergency manager gets on scene and yet while they’re supposed to be part of the incident command system, they may not know what EMS providers that are there, what kind of ambulances they have, what kind of skills they have and vice versa. And that kind of goes back to what I just said, you know, when I went to paramedic school and I think this is a big thing where we’re lacking in para-medicine or even EMTs or ems and generalists, we don’t have a grasp on what emergency managers do. And we need to really change that. First off, we need to implement, you know, FEMS training courses.

We need to go over just the basics on command structures because like I said, you know, a fresh. Let’s put myself example, a fresh 20 year old kid that just graduated with his paramedic license. I couldn’t tell you what my roles and responsibilities are when it, if a, if a shooting that happened, you know, you just show up and you hope for the best. And so I think we need to get better at our core education on all sides of it. And in addition to that, the answer your question is, you know, that all down to a clear communication, I don’t know the specific so I don’t really want to bash anybody like you said, but you know, I, I wonder how well they communicated with their emergency managers. I wonder how often they’ve trained. You know, that’s definitely a bigger city. So the more people you get thrown into the mix, the more hectic it’s going to be.

We try to route here is have a tabletop discussion on what we do, but sometimes, especially firebase and ems based, we just tend to be ourselves. We don’t tend to invite emergency managers and vice versa. And so that’s when you really get to confusion going on. You really don’t know what your resources are and that’s when it really is hectic, you have people just grabbing people and take him, take him to the hospital, but you know, instead of doing a proper triage and things like that. So for me it would definitely be core value education on emergency management and then secondly, just good practice and good communication system wide, you know, you’ve got to involve everybody and, and I think most people including chiefs or fire people in ems and emergency management people know that, but implementing, implementing it and actually practicing and, and sitting down and being all the same team, I think that’s definitely something we can, we need to work on as a, as in the United States.

Todd DeVoe:      Yeah, I agree with you. I, one of the things that we always say you never want to trade business cards when you’re standing up patch to patch at the, at the end of the car

Tim Williamson:                Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And, and you know, and how do we fix that, you know, Is it a personality issue, is it just, is it something else, is it administrative, is it city wide that we just don’t know these things, but it ultimately falls on all of us. You know, we need to know who each other are and in what our capabilities are. It’s unfortunate, I think in the EMS and fire world specifically, I don’t need your help. We can do it. It’s our department and there’s a lot of pride in and rightfully so. You know, fire departments traditionally are very proud people for good reason because you know, they’re brotherhoods and sisterhoods and asking for help sometimes the hard, the hard part and I’m lucky enough to work for a great chief that definitely sees beyond that, but you know, you see it, you see it, you see a lot of people just not wanting to play with others and I think that’s when you’re gonna come into chaos.

Todd DeVoe:      Yeah, I agree with you. I, I’m lucky that I’m in an area where we do play well together in the sandbox and one of the reasons why we do so well together is because for the longest time, which is now decommissioned, we had a nuclear power plant just down the street from us, a few miles south of the border between San Diego and Orange County. And so because of that we were forced to play well together in the sandbox because if that thing ever had an issue,

Tim Williamson:                yeah, that’s big thing. And, and you know, and I think a lot of other issues that emergency managers may face, like you know, depending on the size of your community that you serve, your, you may only be part-time. And so how are you supposed to develop heart good relationships when you’re working 20 hours a week, part-time in that you know, in, in trying to make no, no. Three other departments or for other departments in your county or wherever you serve.

Todd DeVoe:      I mean, don’t get me started on that because not only that…

Tim Williamson, you know, sometimes it’s definitely an issue, but it comes down to, in my opinion, you know, again, it’s, it’s how well do emergency managers in your opinion get, you know, have relationship even with their elected officials?

Todd DeVoe:      Well, I, I think that most emergency managers, a true emergency manager, when I say this is because a lot of times you have the collateral duty, you know, fire capitalist gets promoted or a police sergeant who gets promoted and all of a sudden now they’re the, they’re the emergency manager for that team or whatever. Um, I think the people that actually do emergency management for a living, that’s their day job, for lack of a better term, they tend to have a better relationship with the city manager or the elected officials because it’s what they do, right? Absolutely. Where were you fall into some issues, like I said before, is it’s this collateral duty. People who, number one at no fault of their own is comes onto their lap just because of promotion.

And so, they might not even have the aptitude for emergency management, uh, let alone the attitude for emergency management because it just, all of a sudden you’re like, holy crap, I got to do this. I don’t even understand it right then. But by the time they do now, they’re, they’re, they’re rotating out of that position back to the floor.

Tim Williamson:                Right, In it. That’s a great point. I’m super glad you brought that up because I did something I want to mention. Um, you know, at least around here, you see a lot of fire chiefs that take or not take on that role. They are assigned those rules. And so you have a fire chief that is trying to not only run his own, his or her own department trying to allocate resources will necessarily worried about his or her budget. And now you throw that emergency management. Well, that’s almost impossible in my opinion. You know, I’m sure there’s a lot of fire chiefs that are great emergency managers obviously, but you know, we need to be having professional emergency managers are out there just like you said, because you know, I put myself in an example, let’s say I’m a fire chief and now I’m an emergency manager. My bias is going to go towards the, you know, the fire service. It’d be worried about my guys. I’m maybe not too much about the police force and, and just because I have so much on my plate and trying to do this, I mean it’s impossible. My opinion,

Todd DeVoe:      and I’m pretty vocal about this and so this is not going to be any shock to anybody who’s listening to this podcast. You know, I, I really do think that emergency managers, um, should be at least the emergency manager for a city should be at least at the same level as the fire chief and police chief to have that same department level position. But, uh, uh, I think I’m the minority on, on that, uh, opinion, but that’s where I stand in this world. Keep standing. Sure. Um, so your transition, this is a good segue. So, and like I said, I’ve said this a bunch of times. There was an article in police, one online of the police were magazine online and it was basically saying, hey, go to FEMA IS courses take, you know, four or five of these courses and YouTube can be an emergency manager and you’ve gone through, you’re going through a degree program or degree program where you have emergency management in your degree program. So you learned a little bit about it. What do you think of that retired fire captain who decides, okay, you know what, I need a second job after I retired, I’m going to go become an emergency manager or that retired police captain who does the same thing. What do you think of people like that?

Tim Williamson:                Honestly, you know, I think there are two aspects to it, so it’s easy to say no, they shouldn’t admit it. In reality, it may be the best person for the job and, and let’s use the fire captain that retires because as you, as you know, and I’ve listened to you say it before, you know ems or excuse me, emergency management is relatively new law. I think it was just last week you had Dr. Helman And Dr Kemp from Capella University, and they were even said, you know, basically emergency manager is pretty new before it was actually an associate. Oh my goodness. Of course. Sociology and emergency management still has a long ways to go. I think it definitely has its place, but as far as people retiring and doing it, you know, it may just be the best choice because I’ll use myself as an example, you know, fire based. and EMS based. Uh, yes I did. I went through a great program, but, you know, initially, without going to FEMA and other things just getting thrown into a um, emergency management spot, it’d be a lot. So I think, you know, they do bring a lot of experience and bring a lot of knowledge. Um, so, you know, sometimes I think that’s not, I guess I guess what I’m saying is I guess it for those people that are, the best person for the job potentially. Um, you know, I’m curious to see what you think about it.

Todd DeVoe:      Well, yeah. And I think so too, and I have some good friends that, I mean for myself, obviously I came from EMS originally. So I mean it’s okay. There’s a transition period that goes through. There is some argument right now that’s going on where they’re saying that anybody who goes into emergency management should have some higher education degree, whether it’s public administration or emergency management, something like that. There’s that argument that’s going on right there because the skill set is a lot different than a first responder. And I have some friends that are outstanding police administrators, you know, they’ve made their way up from, you know, from a, a deputy chief and never went to college. Um, and they, they know it well. And so there’s nothing saying that you have to go to college to, to have that, that information in your, in your back pocket because you learn through experience.

But I think what you’re finding now on the education side of things which are finding now as police departments are starting to recruit people that have at least an AA degree, um, preferably a bachelor’s degree. And you’re seeing the people that are getting up into administration have to have at least a master’s degree, you know? And so I think I think education is, moving along or I think hiring with people with higher to higher education degrees is moving forward. And I think that as emergency managers you’re seeing some really good EM’s that are coming out of college without the first response experience that are able to step into that position and do it well. And I think what you’re going to find is that I think that the best of both worlds. If someone like you, Timothy, who has been a first responder and has, their advanced degree in emergency management where they can, they can tie both in.

And if I was to say if I was to create the perfect emergency manager, it would be somebody like you who went to college as a has a degree with an emergency management background in public administration and then has the first responder experience. Because then you have the best of both worlds. You understand when you’re sitting in the EOC what the line guys are doing. And so to be able to do that, I think that’s the perfect best of the best word…

Disaster EMS & Emergency Management with Tim Williamson, BannerTim Williamson:                You bring up some great points and you know, you are seeing that in I think a lot of people right out of high school need to understand that if you want to, you’ve seen the trend of police officers, EMT, firefighters, what have you eat, emergency managers, new degrees are now going to be the, I foresee it being the standard and people really need to be educated in their craft and to go in.

To add onto that, you know, you said emergency management, there’s a lot of great ones coming out of college. Absolutely. I’ll say from my experience though, the only, you know, the hardest thing for emergency managers right out of college from what I’ve seen when I went to FEMA, among other things is that while this, the knowledge is there. A lot of people, unfortunately, they have little to no experience because all they’ve done is went to school, which is fine. Which is great. But I, you know, I see that a lot of complaints saying I can’t maybe find a position because I don’t have any experience in, but how am I supposed to get experience when I’ve been going to school? Um, yeah, he really. And that’s kind of, I can imagine that’s very frustrating.

Todd DeVoe:      So I said I think the best of both worlds. I think this other thing too is, and I tell a lot of my students this, that are looking to break into emergency management. I said don’t don’t be afraid to go to the volunteer organizations that exist out there. You know, on the west coast, there aren’t a lot of volunteer fire departments on the east coast. There are tons of volunteer fire departments that you can get, you can cut your teeth on. I mean I started out as a volunteer firefighter and upstate New York, you know, so that’s, that’s, that’s how I really got. I was 18 years old, you know, I got interested in, in, in public safety because of that, you know, so, so that’s a really great starting point. So those kids that are graduating from college that don’t have that real world experience can go for the American Red Cross or Team Rubicon or salvation army. They’re volunteer fire departments out there or local volunteer organizations, tons of them that do some relief work, you know, get involved there.

And that’s a really good way to get experience. Um, but yeah, I mean, so that’s, that’s this building. I think we have that problem wherever we go, right? It’s how do you, how do you unfold the onion of, of experience versus education. And that’s why I said I think like somebody who like yourself who is in that first response mode and is able to go and finish their education is probably the perfect fit. I think where we do a disservice to the public is where we pick up that guy who retired from the police department a year ago decides he needs a second job because of whatever wants to buy a new boat, you know, and then um, you know, it goes, applies for emergency management position and only took some. IS courses from FEMA and says, okay, now I have this experience in this, you know, when that’s when something happens that where we have a failure to communicate, to quote a movie, you know, we have this failure to communicate and you’ve seen this like in Sonoma county in California, went through a really tough time when they lost a whole village, basically part of a town to a wildfire and they decided because of this and some other things that they now are hiring a full time emergency manager for the county, the first one and the county’s history.

And I hate to see tragedy create position, you know, look at what happened, you know, in, in New Orleans with the issues that happened down there. You know what I mean? So again, here we have tragedy creating positions. Yeah. So I’d like to avoid that.

Tim Williamson:                Yeah, absolutely. You met him, you make good points in, in. Um, absolutely. And so I guess my only thought was that is it, you know, maybe the way we hire emergency management managers usually interview and that stuff, you know, maybe we need to have a. people maybe think about having a test of some kind for the hiring process to kind of just test basic knowledge and for these positions and on a point system, much like you see in fire departments when they test, you know, that’s just right off the top of my head. But I think having some regulations on how you hire because I, you know, you obviously everyone’s heard of that, what you mentioned about the person just wanting to buy a new boat and they just kind of want to get a little more boost on the retire or retirement package. But, you know, I, I don’t, I’m, I’m curious to see how long that lasts can simply for the fact that you’re going to see a lot more very educated. You’re gonna see a lot of people that are, have a lot experiences coming out of school, like you just said, doing taken advantage of volunteer experience and you know, they’re gonna, they’re gonna have the knowledge base and hopefully maybe some experience to, to, to take over those roles.

Todd DeVoe:      I think one of the things that we can embrace as emergency managers and I and I, and again I’ve been on record saying this multiple times, the IAEM’s CEM program, I think it is, I think for one of the lax, I think it’s the best thing we out there right now.

Tim Williamson:                That’s a great point. Yeah, absolutely. I agree. And let me, let me ask you this. So you know, while I’m thinking about it, let’s go back to emergency management in ems. You know, like you said, most people have police experience. Most people have ems experience. I know a lot, some college programs that have emergency management, you know, they have EMT classes, just EMT basic classes in their curriculum and you know, I wanted to kind of also ask you, what do you think about maybe you know, at the university level implementing like a paramedic program for them to have an emergency management degree? You know, obviously the EMT is a great start, but I think having these kids, I’ll use the word kids or young adults coming out of college with a paramedic or degree kind of I think would, might boost it or vice versa. You know, going back to what I said, where people coming out of paramedic class should have some, some sort of curriculum for emergency managers.

Todd DeVoe:      Well, you know, it’s interesting. I know a few years ago there was this really big push to have the paramedic program be an AA program instead of just doing 120 hours of EMT and then whatever, whatever the standard hours, I forget what it is now for paramedic, you know, having just, you know, basically you go to EMT school, you work for six months in the ring and he’d come back out and then you do six months of paramedic school and then you know, you get your gift to start ivs and stuff. You know. So I, you know, they’re saying, okay, we should have a, an associate’s degree and I know a couple of schools that started associate’s degrees but it didn’t really take off, you know, the standards aren’t there to say that it has to be. And, and it’s funny because I, you know, other countries you have to go through two years of training to be a paramedic.

Tim Williamson:                Right. And, and I’ll, I’ll, I’ll actually comment on that. Yeah, yeah, you’re absolutely right. You know, you could just go to your local private amo service and probably they had a paramedic class where you just knock it out and that’s great. And not saying those people are bad medics at all because they’re probably. But you know, you are actually seeing a trend or an uptake in having what’s called accredited programs and accredited programs. Most always our associate degrees now. So that’s why you’re really doing a national registration of EMT register. Very routine. Excuse me. You’re really starting to see with it’s longer you’re accredited ems programs with associate degrees and the like where I went through with rather than always central college, he was the gentleman that runs that. He was one of the first ones in central Illinois and maybe even the state that actually offered this and you know, having that degree really helps you with your job and then even going onto your undergrad. So I think it’s a great thing too. And I know some of the pushback came from fire, right? That

Todd DeVoe:      that said, hey, we don’t want to have our guys have to go through, be gone for two, two years because they want to be able to hire him and then train them and, and go through that process as well. But it’s funny because that happened with EMT two. I mean I know for the longest, longest time that I won’t say any names of the departments, but there are some large city and county fire departments that train their own EMTs that didn’t go through the state register for EMT stuff. They just trained to their level. And then once we went with the national registry programs, all the EMT is had to go through an accredited program. So I mean progress is going to happen to where, where, where are you going to have to have this education, uh, to, to run, you know, and I can see the same thing.

Like I said, there was a, there’s a gentleman right now who he’s finishing his Ph.D. He is really pushing for the fact of having emergency managers having to have at least a bachelor’s degree to sit in that seat because there’s a difference between obviously between and everybody here is listening to this or I shouldn’t say, everybody, but a lot of my audience were all in this position as emergency managers. But it’s a different thing when you’re sitting waiting for a call to drop. Right? And it is for us to be on a daily basis dealing with elected officials and city management, upper management of all of all branches, all services. So like, and that’s why I think the emergency managers should be a separate entity because number one, you need to deal with the fire chief. You need to deal with the police chief.

You need to deal with the director or the, um, you know, the director of the planning department. You need to be able to deal with the director of public works. You need to deal with the director of the parks and recreation. You need to be able to deal with the director of sanitation. You need to be able to deal with the power company. You need to be able to deal with, you know, you know, the whoever else, you know, uh, army corps of Engineers, when you have flood zones, you need to be able to deal with the guy who in charge of the power plant for, you know, whatever. Those are the people that you’re dealing with on that level. You know. And I think that’s where it becomes important that if you’re a number one, a collateral duty for your city are, and, and I hate to say this, but are you going to be able to walk in and be at the same level and have the same command presence that you have over anywhere else, you know, and you have to be able to be able to decision maker when you walk into those rooms.

And I’ve seen it time and time again where the collateral duty personal walks into the room and it’s like I need to call over here to see if we can do this, which is okay, you know because sometimes you want to slow things down anyway. But is that the person who you wanted and you know, let me put it this way, would you send a line level firefighter and I’m talking to the fire chiefs out there, or would you send the line level officer to the police chiefs to an all police chiefs are all fire chief’s meeting. I’m going to guess you wouldn’t. You’d probably want to send a, you know, assistant chief or someone like that. Right. So why would you send an emergency manager who doesn’t have decision making, somebody who’s filling that role, that doesn’t have a decision making ability into the room to where decisions need to be made. And that’s, that’s really where we’re at today. That’s where we’re at today. And, and I think that’s where cities are missing the boat when you have collateral duty emergency managers. This is my opinion, again, I’ve said this,

Tim Williamson:                very interested in, in, you know, in addition to all that, you know, I think emergency managers have a worse role in addition to everything you said. You got to get all these stakeholders, you know, having a relationship with them. But then you also have to value, you know, somehow show that you’re worth getting paid, you know because nobody cares about emergency managers until there’s a problem, right? There hasn’t been a problem in 20 years. And you know, you gotta keep talking to your board, your village board or your city board and your mayor. And it’s a lot of work. It’s a lot of work.

Todd DeVoe:      So how do, how do you see EMS? Uh, you know, interacting, like how do you see as EMS, obviously in your department, it’s a, it’s the same, it’s a single service, right? You have EMS and fire. How do you see EMS specifically working into the roles of emergency management? Like what, what role can you see the position of emergency EMT or ems specifically filling in that,

Tim Williamson:                you know, I’m in the ground floor if you like, you’re just would say regular paramedic, you know, as in, in emergency management, I don’t really see it. I think you’re gonna see a big uptake in paramedics, EMT, he’s trying to become emergency managers and so it’s kind of the opposite way around. It’s not really emergency managers trying to becoming a teacher. You’re going to see the ladder. So, you know, I guess I really don’t know how to answer that question. Then regards, I think a good ems paramedic, depending on the scene, their best role in emergency management can obviously observing to see, making sure seen safe as they can and then reporting that back and then figuring out, you know, triage systems, you know, with those either. I don’t know, I’m sure everyone listeners know this, but as is just to see all the victims prioritize them according to acuity or how sick they are and then trying to find ways to transport them out and so that’s going to be the big role for ems providers on the ground.

Tim Williamson:                And how about in the EOC see, and currently, you know, uh, I think I think they could play a big role in EOC and simply because they can prioritize or help the providers on the ground, uh, provide transport or at least try to, you know, organize other responding EMS is trying to provide additional like helicopters for air evacs if need be, but I definitely think they have a role in the EOC. I think they could really take that burden off maybe the fire chief or whoever else for the injured and, and, and really relating to the fire chief or whomever, you know, what the situation is at the

Todd DeVoe:      patient level. Do you see an EMS based, uh, emergency management working well with, like say hospital evacuations and like that? That’s a

Tim Williamson: a little bit, I’m not entirely sure about that. You know, ems doesn’t have too much input as far as the hospital settings go for evacuations, but however that kind of goes back to your EOC question, you know, if we ground level guys, call and guys or gals call the ems liaison at the EOC and say, Hey, we have possibly 50 patients, you know, I don’t know any hospital least where I’m at that can handle that much all at once. So that could also be another role for that person in the EOC to call the hospitals. Like, hey, we have pipe potentially 50 patients and divide them up accordingly or at least the system and divided them up to where they go. But as far as the actual evacuation, I’m not familiar with any ems agencies that actually do that for hospitals. All.

Todd DeVoe:      Alright. So if you were coming to the uh, near the end of our time here. Um, so two quick questions. So one is if somebody is interested in reading your article, how can they find it?

Tim Williamson:                A, yeah, they can go to JEMS.com. Uh, it’s JEMS j, e, m s.com. And just search for preplanned ems role in emergency management.

Todd DeVoe:      And then what book or books do you recommend

Tim Williamson:                That’s a great question. I actually just started reading a book called emotional intelligence by Daniel Goleman, PhD. It basically just kind of helps you be a better leader, how to think properly in stressful situations. And I definitely recommend I’m about halfway through, but it’s a great book. Awesome.

Todd DeVoe:      Emotional intelligence. Great. And then is there anything else you’d like to say to the emergency manager before we let you go?

Tim Williamson:                I had a great time. I definitely appreciate it. And uh, you know, just be safe out there.

Todd DeVoe:      All right. Thank you for being here.

Tim Williamson:                Thank you sir.


LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/tim-williamson1

Email: paramedicwilliamson@gmail.com

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